Can’t believe I did this….

So we had booked a nice break for a few days in our motorhome. We had arranged to visit Chatsworth House in Derbyshire for their Christmas ‘Alice in Wonderland’ themed display.

Chatsworth was lovely and put us in festive mood.

For accommodation we chose to stay on a nice little farm site in a small village called Old Brampton near Chesterfield.

The next day the sun was out and we decided on a circular 5 mile loop walk, visiting the picturesque village church of St.Peter’s.

This was ‘en route’ to the adjacent Linacre Valley and our perambulations through the peaceful wooded surrounds of the 3 Linacre reservoirs. Just beautiful and rounded off our stay nicely.

Next day we returned home and you might be wondering if this was going to be a post about family history…and you’d be right!

During the weekend that followed, I sorted the photos from our trip and did a bit of re-filing on my large collection of family related documents and photos.

I picked up a few document snippets from my dear late Aunt Cynthia, and was marvelling with Les at the neatness and work that had gone into her family history records and I’m sure you will agree from the clips below. (Oooh….’Middleton’ – wonder if we’re connected!)

Have you spotted it already? When we looked a bit harder we were gob smacked! Not only was Chesterfield plastered across them, but Old Brampton jumped out of the page.

We had literally been walking in my ancestors footsteps, not a care in the world, and hadn’t realised it! We had walked in the grounds of St.Peters, Old Brampton where my 2 x great grandmother had been baptised in 1826, completely un-aware.

Well I studied the documents and photos from our walk with renewed interest. It was like Cynthia had led us to her documents and rapped me across the knuckles for not paying attention. A return visit must be made!

Below is a small typewritten extract of Cynthia’s report about this part of the tree. I was greatly interested to read again about the origin of Obadiah Roebuck’s name and yes….the methodist connections which play nicely on the recent and continuing series of posts about methodism and our ancestor, the Reverend Thomas Holliday.

Of course all this is on the modern web version of our family tree, but due homage must be paid to the work of our great, late family historian.

Cynthia Clare – Genealogist (1922 – 1999)

Violet Howard Update

Last time I wrote about Violet we had some confusion about the date she died.

Well I received a call from her younger brother Tony the other day and he put me straight that 1941 was definitely wrong. He remembers being told it was about 6 weeks before he was born and also that Violet’s tragic death started his mum off with an early delivery (Tony was born 16 Dec 1940). He believes she was standing sheltering in an alley way when the bomb struck.

When we spoke he reckoned it was 14 Nov 1940. 6 weeks prior to his birth would put it at 4 Nov 1940.

The two websites I quoted in the earlier article have sourced Violet’s death as 5 Nov 1940. Ancestry carries a death index record for Violet ‘Greensel’ (we will get the correct spelling one of these days) in the last quarter of 1940, which is consistent. The question still remains for the family, why the nice new headstone (see photo in earlier article) gives her death as 1941.

I guess at some point we can order a copy of the actual death certificate to finally nail it. Meanwhile, I’m tending towards the Coventry websites having drawn their accurate descriptions about the mass killings caused by the blitz, and the circumstances of Violet’s death, from a pretty reliable source in Coventry civic records. So for now, I’m personally going with 5 Nov 1940.

It’s amazing what happens when you start shaking the tree! Also much to my delight and surprise, Les pulled out a set of photos including more of Violet…see below.

• The lovely portrait on the left has obviously been hand tinted.
• The middle one is a puzzle. Who is the baby Violet is holding…it can’t be Tony or Trevor as they were both born some weeks after Violet died, Tony 16 Dec 1940 and Trevor 27 Feb 1941. Any idea from the family?
• The right hand photo looks to have the same ladies (possibly friends) that appeared in the previous post about Violet.

Has anyone else got any stories or photos of Violet?

My 'Primitive' Ancestor - Part 3

Part 1 of this series about my ‘Holliday’ ancestral line provided an overview of Thomas Holliday, my 3 x great grandfather and Primitive Methodist preacher.

Part 2 gave a short overview of how Methodism started and developed under John Wesley, who died in 1791.

This third part now focuses on Thomas Holliday and concerns itself with his formative years up to approx.1820, his conversion to the faith and early attempts at preaching. In parallel we will review the on-going developments in Methodism as Thomas was growing up.

1797 – Thomas Holliday - His Early Years

It was into the previously described religious backdrop, 6 years post Wesley that my 3 x Great Grandfather, Thomas HOLLIDAY was born, Labour-in-Vain, Rufford, Nottinghamshire on 5 Sep 1797. I have searched for historical details of this area and found the following two snippets from 2001 :-

“The Labour-in-vain in Bilsthorpe was the name of a farm. The houses
pinpointed……adjacent to the A614, were originally farm workers
cottages. One of my ancestors (Stephen Broome) once lived and worked at that
farm (mid 19th century).The farm was still there at the end of the 19th
century but had disappeared in all but name by the mid 20th century. – (Dennis Farmery)”

AND:-

“Adding to that there are two (or were last time I went there) farms on the
stretch of Mickledale lane I know as Labour-in-vain. One is owned by a guy
called Strawson and is a big concern in the area. The other which is
possibly gone now (I think Strawsons bought it up) is/was owned by a guy
called Chris Storer. – (Craig Kerry)”

On further searching I discovered a row of cottages called ‘Labour-in-vain’ at this Google Maps/Streetview location.

Thanks to the careful preservation of historical documents and with special thanks to the Englesea Brook Chapel & Museum who have been extremely helpful, we can peruse these extracts from Thomas Holliday’s personal diary about his early years and family (apologies for the poor readability in parts).

The above provides much needed insight and information about Thomas and his immediate family. For example, this tells us about their move to Aughton, near Rotherham when Thomas was young and also confirms his mother died when he was a boy. I can’t find a record of her death or burial as yet. Joseph, born 1802, is the last child of Mary and John Holliday that we currently have on record. She presumably died not long after leaving a large, grieving family who it seems all pulled together in their faith.

It is also interesting to note Thomas’ father worked for a John Vessey both in Rufford and in Aughton. He seems to have been an important landowner of the period…a name for further research!

Further, Thomas confirms he has 4 brothers and 4 sisters and mentions “…eleven of them in the way to heaven” at the time of writing (1821), although we only have 2 sisters confirmed at present (see family tree). Further research of other family members would be most welcome.

1799 - Hugh Bourne – ‘Father’ of Primitive Methodism

To backtrack to 1799, two years following on from Thomas’ birth, the Methodist movement was in some turmoil and this was the year a young 27 year old English, north Staffordshire wheelwright, Hugh BOURNE, began on his path of gospel preaching. Hugh’s destiny would see him as a prime driver and ‘Father’ of the Primitive Methodist movement for the next 50 years.

The start of the century saw an American religious revival sweeping the country. ‘Camp’ meetings were held lasting several days with preachers making highly charged, emotional expressions of faith. Some of these preachers were highly celebrated and perhaps one of the more famous ones was Lorenzo ‘Crazy’ Dow.

He also came to England to promote his style of religious fervour and in so doing met Hugh Bourne.

1807 – The First English ‘Camp’ Style Meeting at Mow Cop

The seed of Camp meetings had been sown and grew in Bourne’s mind as a powerful technique and the first one held at Mow Cop in 1807. Although a low key, one day affair compared to the big American style meetings, it was sufficient to upset and was ‘the last straw’ for the established Wesleyan Methodists who by now were the main Methodist movement in England. They saw the leaders of these meetings and their followers as renegade religious ‘Zealots’ and sought to disentangle themselves by denouncing and forcibly expelling members sympathetic to that style. They even tried to prevent the meeting branding it as ‘highly improper for England’.

These rejected groups formed different Methodist denominations, Hugh Bourne a key leader amongst them. They all had in common the feeling that the Wesleyan Methodists were now too establishment and respectable, not representing the wider, working classes of society and they thus formed the ‘Primitive Methodist Connexion’ which would encourage the old fire of the early revivalist years and reach out into the community. They were also to be widely known by the terms ‘Camp Meeting Methodists’ and latterly as ‘Ranters’ because of their fervent preaching.

(see http://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/page_id__993_path__0p4p39p.aspx )

1808 – William Clowes (1780-1851)

At this point we must introduce William CLOWES, a potter by trade who had entered the Wesleyan Church as a new convert in 1805, after a rather colourful, mis-spent youth. He began preaching from 1808. He took up with Bourne and others to emerge as a founding member of the Primitive Methodists and a charismatic and successful preacher, especially in the north of England where his following were known as ‘Clowesites’. His journals are valuable social history material.

(see also http://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/page_id__196.aspx)

 

1810 – William Clowes expelled from the Wesleyan Methodists

However, by attending the Mow Cop and other camp meetings and fraternising too much it seems with Hugh Bourne and Co., he was promptly removed from membership of the Wesleyans in 1810 for much the same reasons as Bourne's exclusion.

1812 – The Primitive Methodists are formed

On February 12, 1812, the Camp Meeting Methodists and the Clowesites coalesced into one body, taking the name Primitive Methodists. Emphasis on the camp meeting as a channel of evangelism was unquestioned.

(To be continued in Part 4…)

Dad–Edgar ‘Eddie’ ROEBUCK

Edgar ROEBUCK

Happy 100th Dad! We all love and miss you!

Violet HOWARD–a Family War Tragedy

 

Lesley reminded me today about her aunt Violet after she read  a post on facebook at the weekend about the Coventry blitz in WW2.

 

Violet was the third of 6 children born to Lesley's grandparents, John and Annie HOWARD on 2nd Nov 1918, just 9 days before the Armistice was signed, ending WW1 hostilities.

 

HOWARD Family Group - about 1924

In this photo Violet is pictured far right with her two older siblings May and John and her two younger siblings Charles and Ronald. As we currently believe baby Ronald was born about 1924, this would be the approximate year of the photo.

 

 

HOWARD Family Group - abt. 1930

This family group shot was taken around 1930 and shows 4 of the 6 children with Violet on the left.

 

 

Violet Howard

(The first of only two further photos we have of Violet – all probably late 1930's)

 

Violet pictured here by a church

 

Family Headstone with Violet, her mother and older brother

(We only know she married a GRENSIL [there are multiple spellings published for this surname] from the inscription on her headstone - no firm marriage date yet. And the headstone suggests she died in 1941.)

 

 

In fact sadly, Violet was killed by a WW2 bomb at the young age of 22. We were told this by Lesley's late parents. They said she would ignore good advice to avoid areas down town during the bombing raids and she was buried under rubble during an attack.

 

 

We didn't know a great deal else until Lesley did a Google search and discovered one or more excellent websites all about the Blitz in Coventry. The above clip is an extract from one such site and seems to confirm that poor Violet was a victim of the November 1940 bombing, losing her short life in the Foleshill Road, Coventry. This date is slightly at odds with the year of death given on her headstone, so further checking will need to be done.

 

 

Another website, this one referring to books you can obtain about the period and author ‘Trevor Harkin’ also refers to the stories of the victims by name, including our Violet.

 

More updates when we get the details.

My 'Primitive' Ancestor - Part 2

The History of Methodism

Today, there are about 75 million people worldwide who call themselves 'Methodist'. Yet this Christian denomination only began in the mid-eighteenth century in Britain, due in large part to the strong leadership, extensive travelling and organisational abilities of John Wesley, celebrated today as the most prominent 'Founder of Methodism'. (see http://goo.gl/1XGR3F )

John & Charles Wesley were born to an Anglican family at the start of the 18th century, studying at Oxford to follow their father into ministry within the Anglican church. In 1729, they formed the ‘Holy Club’ there and, with a reputation for a methodical approach to the study of religion they were nicknamed ‘Methodists’. In 1735 they sailed to Georgia, USA to take up Anglican ministries with John’s rigorous, often outdoor, preaching style. (see http://goo.gl/62TyK2 )

The USA trip was a failure and the brothers returned to England downhearted having spent over a decade of spiritual searching with attendant failures along the way.

However, during their travels they took great inspiration from a group of Moravian Christians (origins: Eastern Europe) and subsequently John Wesley had a religious ‘breakthrough’ moment in Halifax. This inspired and affected him so greatly that it became the beginnings of the Wesleyan Methodist movement.

( see http://goo.gl/fK19oJ )

During his lifetime John remained an Anglican but his experience had kindled a reforming spirit and he worked with the original ‘Holy Club’ members to revive a new movement within the church made up of groups, becoming ‘societies’ even, all over the country which were sympathetic to his ideas. These were religious ‘pioneers’ and often faced ridicule and even personal threats for their beliefs and teachings seen to be outside the ‘establishment’

John Wesley died an Anglican in 1791, leaving his legacy, a new Wesleyan Methodist movement. However, this was an uncomfortable alliance between Anglicans, Wesleyan Methodists and ‘others’ that had taken root. These schisms consisted internally of groups, some of which wanted to remain within the Anglican church and some that felt they should become separated. #Genealogy

My 'Primitive' Ancestor - Part 1

Welcome to my new blog the main purpose of which is to compliment the ongoing family history research which is a fun hobby of mine. There are links below and in my blog profile to the main Family Tree website (R.A.F.A.W.) that I run for all the extended families linked to my own and forming the scope of research.

 

From the post title, you might be forgiven for thinking this was about pre-historic man, apes or some such topic. No -  I thought I would begin with an introduction to my great great great grandfather (sometimes referred to as 3 x great grandfather), the Reverend Thomas Holliday, a 19th century, Primitive Methodist Preacher.

Some months ago my interest in our Holliday ancestors was piqued when I was introduced to a fellow researcher on Ancestry, another descendant of Reverend Thomas Holliday who had carried out meticulous research about him, and his various family lines. As depicted here in 1836, he was 39 years old.

His page on the aforementioned RAFAW website (Roebuck And Families Ancestry Website) can be found at http://goo.gl/tGh4Fs

It turned out, that Thomas was my 3 x great grandfather, his granddaughter was our Ellen Holliday. (see http://goo.gl/SRlTxG )

To bring us up to present day, Ellen Holliday and Obadiah Roebuck married and are my great grandparents on my dad’s side of the family. (see http://goo.gl/RCFrMl )

It wasn’t just the discovery of a new, more distant relative, it was also the attendant history surrounding Reverend Thomas Holliday that intrigues me. It appears that he was a key activist in the set up of the 19th century Primitive Methodist Connexion, building on the Wesleyan Methodists established by John Wesley and his brother Charles the previous century.

I am not a religious person myself and I suspect the good Reverends’ Wesley and Holliday would be disappointed with me. However, their work was key to the lives and welfare of so many and I do have a fascination with the religious beliefs of my family ancestry. So I thought I would do some research to better understand their story and I’m sharing it with you, in illustrated timeline fashion, over the course of several postings to this family album.

In upcoming posts I will touch on some aspects of the social history encountered in the family line between Thomas Holliday and my own wider family today.

Subsequent posts will appear as and when time permits and any comments, queries, corrections, additions and contributions will of course be very welcome. The next post will begin with the Wesley brothers back in the 18th century – essential history, if only summarised, to understand what followed for my ancestor Thomas.